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what do you make of this?

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2 years 8 months ago #163366 by fizzy
fizzy created the topic: what do you make of this?

"So you ask me how it feels to be a stick in the wheel
I tell you honey it feels alright
to be another clog in the wrecking machine
wouldn't even cross my mind"

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2 years 8 months ago - 2 years 8 months ago #163367 by mrs v. viper
mrs v. viper replied the topic: what do you make of this?
Ah that article. I have and had many thoughts but I don't want to bore anyone with my lengthy monologues... What do you think?

My main problem with this article is it's blaming business more than lack of conviction, which I think is a just as important issue, in music in general but in rock music especially

☽ O ☾ "Graphic design will save the world right after rock and roll does." - David Carson
In case you need a designer/illustrator:: my Instagram
CRASHDÏET Streetteam germany
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by mrs v. viper.

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2 years 8 months ago #163369 by fizzy
fizzy replied the topic: what do you make of this?
In a way I have a similar dim view about the issues. But in general I think the public should never take any from of music for granted, there is usually always hard work involved

"So you ask me how it feels to be a stick in the wheel
I tell you honey it feels alright
to be another clog in the wrecking machine
wouldn't even cross my mind"

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2 years 8 months ago #163372 by axl whïte
axl whïte replied the topic: what do you make of this?
Ok unpopular opinion coming through so get ready for triggers everybody.

Firstly, I'm an absolutly obsessive musiscian myself so what I'm rambling about isn't all stupid there is some substance and I hope you find it.

Ready?

LET GO.

Just fucking look forward instead, it's over so start creating something new. Yes, rock is dead, it's 65 years old and did a fuck load of drugs ok? It was hugely succesful and earned a lot of money and it had tons of unprotected sex, of course it's gonna have some spoiled and drinking-while-pregnant-retarded-kids and give them hippie names like Gaga and Minaj.

God, I feel like a fucking stamp collector playing my radical rock n roll riffs. But I mean how do you think they feel about e-mailing?

Sure, stamps didnt create equality movements maybe and so forth.

Look, my main point is this. I love rock, I'm listening to ghost atm. But culture changes, and it's always been an inevitable force. And I simply don't care for people who wanna listen to bland stereotype music, which most of every scene music is aswell as every major pop act. So I always find myself in this middle ground of not wanting to even go to concerts anymore (yep, that guy.) My last concert except for tonight actually, was WASP in early 2014. I just don't see the point in big scale productions whether it's grandpas like alice cooper or some festival with 15 house artists. When it comes to smaller bands 95% of them are shit anyway.

Listen to an album from a band you've never heard of every day, get enlightened! :)

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2 years 8 months ago - 2 years 8 months ago #163373 by axl whïte
axl whïte replied the topic: what do you make of this?
Culture changes, look forward. Read some philosophy, take some ecstacy and have some group s e x instead of this memory lane. I guarantee you'll be happier.

Rant over I guess, I have more to say but this is getting out of hand as you can see lol.

Listen to an album from a band you've never heard of every day, get enlightened! :)
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by axl whïte.
The following user(s) gave Kudos to this post: mrs v. viper

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2 years 8 months ago #163376 by mrs v. viper
mrs v. viper replied the topic: what do you make of this?

fizzy wrote: I think the public should never take any from of music for granted, there is usually always hard work involved


I do agree with this, sadly I don't think it will happen for a while. Maybe people need to get fed with bad music for long enough for them to realise that if they want the real deal, they have to pay for it.

Theres been so much saud about the state of the business, and alot of stupid and alot of reasonable things. I think we're just in this timeframe where the old system is failing and no new one is really there yet so it will result in bad conditions for mainly musicians but for consumers aswell.

But music has been around for 1000s of years and societies have always found ways to incorporate music, to sustain it and it's creators, and there has always been stars among musicians. If Stardom keeps looking like Axel Rose and limosines and hotels I have my doubts. I do not think so.

As for rockmusic as a genre, I feel like it's roll in the past has been to speak out things that make many people uncomfortable. When the Rolling Stones sang sympathy for the devil a big part of society still genuinly believed the devil to be unspeakable evil and it was a real problem to them.

things like that aren't serious anymore. But there are plenty of topics that are uncomfortable to people, plenty of topics that people feel passionate or angry about. Just not hearing alot of songs about that.

Rockmusic became unpolitical in times when being unpolitical was a strong statement in itself, these days being unpolitical just means you don't dare to be accountable for your opinions (in many cases at least).

I think rockmusic was successful because it was both fun to listen to and courageous and today we don't have anyone who is both. yet. So theres your missing star.

☽ O ☾ "Graphic design will save the world right after rock and roll does." - David Carson
In case you need a designer/illustrator:: my Instagram
CRASHDÏET Streetteam germany
The following user(s) gave Kudos to this post: fizzy, axl whïte

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2 years 8 months ago #163380 by fizzy
fizzy replied the topic: what do you make of this?
Some good points you brought forth :)

I think being an artist in general is difficult as most people (those who aren't artists themselves) tend to think that art is just a hobby, something to do as a side, therefore they don't treat it as a proper, a 'real' job. I think it is genuinely believed that illustrators, writers, musicians etc. don't have to work for their income as it comes natural to them. Which obviously couldn't be further from the truth, as we know but sadly there is still a lot of ignorance prevailing. Therefore, they shouldn't be payed much.

Society seems to think that everyone should get up in the morning, go to work, come home and watch tv = the 'proper life.' You earn money, you can spend it ( a new car, a house, a holiday) but you will never earn enough to stop working, they take care of that.

So what is the better life? Being a musician and claiming benefits if needs be, but working 16h a day, every day, all the time and eventually changing other peoples life or working 8hs, 5 days a week for some corporate giant where everything you do is worthless, individualism is unheard of and you are easily replaceable by someone else?

I know which life I want to live.

"So you ask me how it feels to be a stick in the wheel
I tell you honey it feels alright
to be another clog in the wrecking machine
wouldn't even cross my mind"

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2 years 8 months ago - 2 years 8 months ago #163384 by mrs v. viper
mrs v. viper replied the topic: what do you make of this?

fizzy wrote: I think being an artist in general is difficult as most people (those who aren't artists themselves) tend to think that art is just a hobby, something to do as a side, therefore they don't treat it as a proper, a 'real' job. I think it is genuinely believed that illustrators, writers, musicians etc. don't have to work for their income as it comes natural to them. Which obviously couldn't be further from the truth, as we know but sadly there is still a lot of ignorance prevailing. Therefore, they shouldn't be payed much.

Society seems to think that everyone should get up in the morning, go to work, come home and watch tv = the 'proper life.' You earn money, you can spend it ( a new car, a house, a holiday) but you will never earn enough to stop working, they take care of that


I remember that my friend's parents more or less openly attacked my mum for not joining into various activities because "as an artist she can decide about time herself". They didn't see that my Mum, who was raising her kids during daytime and worked her ass of at night, didnt get a single payed vacation day, a single payed sick day and spend her weekends getting to art fairs at 5 in the morning, building a stand, freezing 12 hours and then taking it down. People think freedom is nice, it isnt. It includes a whole lot more figuring out, worrying and responsibility and you are NEVER compensated for it.

i honestly never wanted that kind of life, because I saw my mum (and the majority of my family: my grandpa and great-grandpas have been artist for 5 generations, my aunts a fashion designer, my cousin a professional flute player, my uncle a stage designer etc etc etc) struggle sooo much. I consider myself luckybecause I'm fitting into conventional ways of making money enough to feel at least a degree of security.

But I see myself turning to less and less comercially fitting ways of thinking about design and it's scary but nothing can quite compare to feeling the pride you can take in your work and yourself when you know you didnt compromise yourself.

i genuinly believe a society that deserves any praise at all needs art, so I fully agree!

☽ O ☾ "Graphic design will save the world right after rock and roll does." - David Carson
In case you need a designer/illustrator:: my Instagram
CRASHDÏET Streetteam germany
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by mrs v. viper.
The following user(s) gave Kudos to this post: fizzy, axl whïte

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2 years 8 months ago #163390 by fizzy
fizzy replied the topic: what do you make of this?
I would be actually quite interested in what Peter thinks about this.

Since he is in the band that got signed by a major record company in more then 10 years at the time.
I am wondering whether he has witnessed different approaches by record companies over the years? And whether the whole situation was better 10 years ago or nowadays?

"So you ask me how it feels to be a stick in the wheel
I tell you honey it feels alright
to be another clog in the wrecking machine
wouldn't even cross my mind"

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2 years 8 months ago #163398 by friedoctopus
friedoctopus replied the topic: what do you make of this?
I've heard a lot of people say they think the genre is dying because people making the music don't have a passion for it anymore. I'm sure there is truth in that to some degree, but I don't think it's to blame. I see the fans, and their response to changes in technology, as the true cause of the problem. It just seems like there are so few people anymore who really deeply care about the music they listen to.

The internet and the rise of social media and music streaming services have certainly played a role in the shift. So many bands are so easily accessible that it's just not special to find a new band anymore. You can hear practically every song ever written on Spotify for a flat usage fee, so there's no longer any joy in getting your hands on a brand new CD or record and discovering all its secrets. (I have a deep and passionate loathing for these soulless streaming services, but that is a rant for another time.) Along with that comes, maybe, an overall decrease in quality, because now every 13-year-old kid with a garage band, with or without talent or passion, can throw his music into the mix. I guess this might be seen as more people trying to be career musicians, which could cause some of the responses that others have discussed in this topic. I don't think that's actually the case, though; it's just that people who would never have been heard of before can now be heard by anyone anywhere.

But none of those things are enough to cause the kind of decline we see. Only the fans themselves can do that. One would think that growing technology would only strengthen the music industry, in large part because of having such easy access to previously unknown and unknowable small-time musicians; right? I certainly would think so. There is no reason, even though all of the new technology exists, that music fans can't still be like they used to be. In the mix of all the bands out there, good and bad, find the ones that you love and stick by them. Go to live shows to support the bands who come your way. Save up some money to spend on a t-shirt from one of your favorites every once in a while. After you hear that new album on Spotify and like it, get out to your local record store and buy a physical copy for yourself! Nothing can replace the feeling of holding your own complete copy of an album in your hands. These things haven't gone away. And as people like those on this forum demonstrate, not everyone has forgotten. But the only bottom line I can see to explain what has happened is, people in general are lazy and fickle, and this is what we get.

All that being said, I don't think it will ever truly die. There are enough people out there who truly care and really love music to sustain the soul of it. Things may never be the same, with huge-name bands that everyone in the developed world knows, but that does not spell death. Only a shift...

"Though strange lay the waters from which they emerged, they glanced upon the world as their own; yet deep in their hearts they knew all the time that this was not really their home." -Watain, 'They Rode On,' 2013

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2 years 8 months ago #163400 by fizzy
fizzy replied the topic: what do you make of this?
good points!

"So you ask me how it feels to be a stick in the wheel
I tell you honey it feels alright
to be another clog in the wrecking machine
wouldn't even cross my mind"

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2 years 8 months ago #163410 by mrs v. viper
mrs v. viper replied the topic: what do you make of this?

friedoctopus wrote: But the only bottom line I can see to explain what has happened is, people in general are lazy and fickle, and this is what we get.


I don't necessarily disagree with this statement, but I still want to (a bit provocatively) ask, are they really?

I know you don't necessarily meant it that way, but in this context it's easy fo fall in a false sense of nostalgia where "things were better, and the people were better too."

I mean don't be fooled. If the technologies would have been there the same shift would've happened in the 60s/70s/80s already.

I think blaming people for failing musicians because they are fickle and lazy is a bit cynical. Each generation has their problems and worries. Of course people won't care, if they don't have reason to really put their minds to it, and thats just was easy access does. (because yeah they are fickle and lazy, abou some things. But who isnt ignorant of at least one important issue in the world, especially now?)

I think the main issue is awareness. People aren't all mean greedy sharks. Most people want others to be compensated for their work.
There are several studies about how people directly confronted with modern day slavery stop buying clothes made my those workers in asia etc, but only when they are directly confronted with it. It's a shame humans work that way, but who is seriously mentally strong enough to care about EVERYTHING.

the problem is that the music industry of past days has created the invisible artist, so people don't see these issues we've been talking about. Corporate business does that to people. People can't actually imagine musicians to be in the situations they are in, so we should raise awareness about thise things when we can.

☽ O ☾ "Graphic design will save the world right after rock and roll does." - David Carson
In case you need a designer/illustrator:: my Instagram
CRASHDÏET Streetteam germany

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